Select Page

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/ElderTreks

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) Cinder painter (talk) 17:16, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

ElderTreks

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

ElderTreks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

The company is not notable per WP:NORG. I have done a WP:BEFORE and found no sources. CF-501 Falcon (talk · contribs) 01:09, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Agree with nominator. The only sources I have found are articles on travel for older people that mention eldertreks as an option. No in-depth, significant coverage of the company
Anonrfjwhuikdzz (talk) 01:20, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I also agree with you, the nominator. Also, per the reasons @Anonrfjwhuikdzz has said above. An editor from Mars (talk) 04:26, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

* Delete: Zero secondary sourcing to prove WP:GNG. Could not find anything. m a MANÍ1990(talk | contribs) 00:46, 6 April 2025 (UTC) [reply]

  • Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
    1. Vigolo, Vania (2017). "ElderTreks—Small-Group Exotic Adventures for the Over 50". Older Tourist Behavior and Marketing Tools. Cham: Springer International Publishing. pp. 130–136. doi:10.1007/978-3-319-47735-0. ISBN 978-3-319-47734-3. ISSN 2510-4993. Retrieved 2025-04-06 – via Google Books.

      The book notes: "ElderTreks is an adventure travel company designed exclusively for individuals aged 50 and over. It is based in Toronto, Canada, and was established in 1987 by Gary Murtagh. ElderTreks offers trips in over 100 countries and includes destinations in Africa, the Americas, the Asia-Pacific Region, Europe, the Middle East, and the Polar regions. Some of the travel proposals include, for example, wildlife and tribal African safaris, active hiking trips to the Rockies, Himalayas and Andes expeditions by icebreakers to the Arctic and Antarctic, and cultural journeys throughout Asia and South America. ElderTreks proposes small group experiences. For example, the maximum group size for land adventures is 16, and expedition ships rather than cruise ships are used for ship-based adventures. Smaller vessels allow for more personal interaction and reduce the impact at the sites visited. Before the establishment of ElderTreks, Gary Murtagh was running trips all over the world to exotic destinations and he realized that there was not a specific adventure travel company targeting the 50-plus market."

    2. Kruempelmann, Elizabeth (2002). The Global Citizen: A Guide to Creating an International Life and Career. Berkeley, California: Ten Speed Press. p. 114. ISBN 1-58008-352-8. Retrieved 2025-04-06 – via Internet Archive.

      The book notes: "Eldertreks is the world’s first adventure travel company for people over fifty. The goal of the program is to promote genuine, noncommercial encounters with local people and nature’s wonders. Locations include thirty-one destinations worldwide. ... All of Eldertreks’ trips involve some walking, in groups of fifteen people or less. You can choose a trip with activity ratings from easy to challenging, but you should be in fairly good shape. Accommodation levels are mostly mid-range hotels and high-end guest houses and inns — all charming, comfortable, and safe. Restaurants range from small, local eateries to elegant retreats."

    3. Warren, Isobel (1993). On the Go at 50 Plus. Toronto: Cedar Cave Publishing. pp. 93–94. ISBN 0-920403-06-9. Retrieved 2025-04-06 – via Internet Archive.

      The book notes: "One company that’s specializes in adventure travel for mature adults is ElderTreks and president Tov Mason, a mere lad of 33 but already a specialist in adventure trips for younger travellers, is fast becoming expert at creating adventures for their mature counterparts. ElderTreks, often led by Mason himself, have so far included trips to Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, Borneo, the Galapagos Islands, Java and Sumatra, Belize, Costa Rica and Ecuador. But any one tour may accommodate travellers of differing physical abilities. For example, a recent jaunt to Indonesia saw about half of the group explore a gentle countryside at an equally gentle pace while the remainder of the group tackled dense jungles on foot and by canoe and spent the night in a native village."

    4. Hobbs, Pam; Algar, Michael (1994). Free to Travel: A Canadian Guide for the 50-Plus Travellers. Toronto: Doubleday Canada. p. 162. ISBN 0-385-25479-2. Retrieved 2025-04-06 – via Internet Archive.

      The book notes: "ElderTreks of Toronto has the right idea with their “exotic adventures for the young at heart” tailored to fit 50 plus travellers. An example is their 21-day tour in Thailand: sightseeing in Bangkok and surrounds is followed by an overnight train ride to Chang Mai, with the week there highlighted by a bicycle trip into the countryside. From Chang Mai the group divides; some choose to go to the far north for three days; others opt to stay with the people living in the hills. The latter entails an elephant trek through the jungle and overnighting on bamboo floors of village houses. An experience of a lifetime for sure, but not for everyone, which is exactly why ElderTreks offers a less demanding alternative in the Golden Triangle. "

    5. Hegle, Kris Ann (2000). The Internet Made Easy for Seniors. Lincolnwood, Illinois: Publications International. pp. 122–123. ISBN 0-7853-4568-X. Retrieved 2025-04-06 – via Internet Archive.

      The book notes: "EIderTreks' Web site contains a lot of good information about trips geared a specifically toward the 50-or-older traveler. This company specializes in adventure travel. In other words, the trips you'll find at this site aren't designed for people who like to be pampered while on vacation. On Elder Treks' home page you'll see a post filled with signs to destinations such as Central Asia, Africa, Europe, the Americas, the South Pacific, Southeast Asia, and Asia Minor and the Middle East. If you click on a sign destination, you'll link to a Web page that describes all of the trips that are currently offered in that region. You'll also find information about the cost, the length of stay, and where travelers will arrive and depart on each trip. Some trips give travelers the option of extending their stay."

    6. Heilman, Joan Rattner (1996) [1988]. Unbelievably Good Deals and Great Adventures That You Absolutely Can't Get Unless You're Over 50. Chicago: Contemporary Books. pp. 47–48. ISBN 0-8092-3233-2. Retrieved 2025-04-06 – via Internet Archive.

      The book notes: "Not designed for those who prefer to view the world through bus windows or will sleep in five-star hotels only, ElderTreks is a program of off-the-beaten-track trips for people 50 and older (and younger companions) who are in reasonably good physical condition, capable of walking at a comfortable pace in tropical conditions. Featuring exotic adventures to relatively remote places in the world, it stresses cultural interaction, physical activity, and nature exploration. However, trekking routes are chosen with older hikers in mind and groups are limited to 15. Trekking portions of the trips are optional and you may choose to substitute a guesthouse-based itinerary."

    7. Merz Nordstrom, Nancy; Merz, Jon F. (2006). Learning Later-Living Greater: The Three Secrets for Making the Most of Your "After-50" Years. Boulder, Colorado: First Sentient Publications. pp. 170–171. ISBN 978-1-59181-047-6. Retrieved 2025-04-06 – via Internet Archive.

      The book notes: "Nineteen-year-old ElderTreks is the world's first adventure travel company designed exclusively for people fifty and over; it provides exciting small-group activities on the land and sea in more than eighty countries. Excursions focus on adventure, indigenous cultures, and nature. Check out the wildlife in Tanzania, scour the Gobi Desert in Mongolia on a camel, witness the awesome spectacles of Angkor Wat in Thailand, and even visit the seventh continent of Antarctica. All of these adventures and more are possible when you travel with ElderTreks."

    8. Kaye, Evelyn (2001). Travel and Learn: 1001 Vacations Around the World. Boulder, Colorado: Blue Panda Publications. pp. 112–113. ISBN 1-929315-01-5. Retrieved 2025-04-06 – via Internet Archive.

      The book notes: "Designed for adventure travelers of 50 and over, Eldertreks offers hiking and other active trips to dozens of exotic locations including Cuba, Morocco, Kenya, Tibet, Hungary, Turkey, India, Borneo, Vietnam, Brazil, Costa Rica, Iceland, Finland, and New Zealand."

    9. Shapiro, Michael (1997). Pizzo, Stephen (ed.). NetTravel: How Travelers Use the Internet. Sebastapol, California: Songline Studios and O'Reilly & Associates. p. 127. ISBN 1-56592-172-0. Retrieved 2025-04-06 – via Internet Archive.

      The book notes: "Another site aimed at seniors is Toronto-based ElderTreks (http://www.eldertreks.com/), which specializes in adventures for people over 50. Travelers can use the site to learn about ElderTreks’ philosophy and tours. A link leads to information about ElderTreks’ tour leaders, which can help seniors feel more comfortable about the trip they are considering. ElderTreks uses the Net well to give a description of each trip, for example, a 16-day tour of Turkey. The description includes text, images, a map, a detailed itinerary, cost, and departure dates. If travelers still have questions about any tour, they can click ..."

    10. Vadnai, Noah; Smith, Julian (2000). Travel Planning Online for Dummies (2 ed.). Foster City, California: IDG Books. p. 58. ISBN 0-7645-0672-2. Retrieved 2025-04-06 – via Internet Archive.

      The book notes: "ElderTreks (www.eldertreks. com) is a Toronto-based travel agency that specializes in designing active vacations for people over 50. The site is extremely well designed and provides you with tons of tantalizing information about the trips they offer. Hiking in the Gobi Desert? Journeying through Irian Java? A far cry from shuffleboard aboard the Pacific Princess — that's the point."

    11. Landes, Michael (2000). The Back Door Guide to Short-Term Job Adventures. Berkeley, California: Ten Speed Press. pp. 237–238. ISBN 1-58008-147-9. Retrieved 2025-04-06 – via Internet Archive.

      The book notes: "Assuring "exotic adventures for the young at heart," ElderTreks offers off-the-beaten-path cultural experiences to destinations such as Sumatra, Bali, Thailand, and Morocco. The two to three-week trips are geared for travelers who want to really explore and experience a country, from strolling through street markets and cycling through a tropical countryside to the human encounter of sharing dinner with a local family in their home. Nature is a key element to all itineries."

    12. Tsutsumi, Cheryl Chee (2006-09-28). "Exploring the wild side: Toronto-based ElderTreks offers more than five dozen exotic trips for the active older traveler" (pages 1 and 2). Honolulu Star-Bulletin. Archived from the original (pages 1 and 2) on 2025-04-06. Retrieved 2025-04-06 – via Newspapers.com.

      The article notes: "Passages Exotic Expeditions, ElderTreks' parent company, was founded in 1987 *when adventure travel was just in its infancy," according to sales manager Christine Bossence. After five years of catering to all ages, executives noticed there was a big demand from mature travelers seeking active vacations in far-flung destinations without hassles such as arranging for local transportation and accommodations on the spot. Thus, Elder Treks was born as a division of Passages Exotic Expeditions in 1992. It now offers over five dozen adventures in 90 countries, including Libya, Morocco, Madagascar, Hungary/Roma-nia, Sri Lanka, India, Myan-mar, Borneo and Bhutan. Available next year are new programs to Malta, Egypt, Iceland, Papua New Guinea, Belize/Tikal and the Czech Republic/Slovakia/Poland."

    13. Catto, Susan (2002-12-15). "Practical Traveler; Older Travelers Hit the Road". The New York Times. Archived from the original on 2011-02-15. Retrieved 2025-04-06.

      The article notes: "Now in its 17th year, ElderTreks offers land and marine adventures on five continents. Tours are limited to 16 people (some of the boat trips are larger or smaller). [quote] The 21-day Cultural West Africa trip loops through Mali and Burkina Faso, with a safari on the Niger River and a trip to Timbuktu"

    There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow ElderTreks to pass Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)#Primary criteria, which requires "significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard (talk) 09:23, 6 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Though these are reliable sources, most of them read like they are merely mentioning the company and its product listings, i.e. adventure travel for 50+ adults. There is not much in the way of commentary here, and to me these read more as examples of WP:OrgTRIV rather than WP:SUBSTANTIAL. Anonrfjwhuikdzz (talk) 19:23, 6 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with this assessment of the sources. ElderTreks is profiled on pages 130–136 of the academic book Older Tourist Behavior and Marketing Tools published by Springer International Publishing. As this book review from the Journal of the Association for Anthropology & Gerontology notes:

In the third part, the researcher discusses so-called case studies illustrating various strategies adopted in the tourism industry, on the basis of specific examples. The subject of the analysis comprised three tourism firms: (I) Viaggi Floreali (Slovenia), specialising in tourism for small groups of seniors; (II) ElderTreks (Canada), specialising in tourism for individual seniors; (III) Algarve Senior Living (Great Britain), specialising in the rental of tourist facilities. The qualitative research carried out by Vigolo is based on the following methodology: (1) determination of how the company began to target older people; (2) description of the target and its characteristics; (3) description of the company’s distinctive elements; (4) description of the marketing mix (product, price, place, and promotion strategies); (5) analysis of the market context, with a focus on active aging and on challenges for the tourism industry (Vigolo 2017, 129).

Kruempelmann 2002 provides 277 words of coverage about how the company's travel itineraries work. Isobel Warren's book provides 208 words of coverage. Pam Hobbs's book provides 282 words of coverage. The books provides the authors' commentary about what they think about the company's travel itineraries. None of these sources are trivial coverage. The sources meet Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)#Significant coverage, which says, "Deep or significant coverage provides an overview, description, commentary, survey, study, discussion, analysis, or evaluation of the product, company, or organization." Cunard (talk) 21:01, 6 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 08:49, 11 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as per sources provided. It would be nice if someone added some of them to the article - but that's not an issue for AFD. Nfitz (talk) 21:57, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep agreed with this bizarre AfD where we all seem to want to pass the buck about actually adding those sources, but still agreed that is not the job of the AfD. After those copious volume of sources were provided (though not added) this article should not be deleted, though someone please (I call not it!) should add them to the article in a constructive manner. Iljhgtn (talk) 01:06, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.