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Talk:Sobia (drink)

Egyptian sobia vs Saudi sobia

These two have nothing in common in terms of ingredients and should not be conflated in one article. Egyptian sobia is is made from coconut milk. No fermentation is involved and as such there is no alcohol. I will be working to separate the articles. Turnopoems (talk) 10:11, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

After further research, it appears that the Saudi variant is a derivative of the Egyptian one, so combining them within a single article is not entirely unjustified. However, I will work to create a clearer distinction between the two. Additionally, I plan to propose merging this article with Sobia, as the current setup is somewhat unneccessary, Sobia merely redirects to Thuwaybah, despite the two names bearing no apparent similarity. Turnopoems (talk) 18:41, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 17 March 2025

Sobia (drink) → Sobia – The current Sobia article functions merely as a disambiguation page leading to a single article, Thuwaybah, despite the two names having no clear connection. This setup is an inefficient use of article space, especially when it could instead be used for a more substantive entry on Sobia. Turnopoems (talk) 18:48, 13 March 2025 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). C F A 21:31, 17 March 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Bensci54 (talk) 16:23, 25 March 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPathtalk 13:20, 4 April 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 18:05, 11 April 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Valorrr (lets chat) 16:21, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Sobia is not a disambiguation page; it is a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT to Thuwaybah (a wet nurse of the prophet Muhammad). It appears to have always led to that topic ever since it was created in 2007, although for a while it was an article with that title before it was merged/redirected to another article about the same subject with a different name in 2018. A more relevant question is whether most people who use "Sobia" (or "sobia") are talking about the wet nurse or are talking about the drink. The answer to that question does not seem to be clearly provided by the nominator. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:42, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I think it would be fairly uncontroversial to merge it with the drink article, even if these articles have been linked since their inception. The linkage between Thuwaybah and Sobia lacks any linguistic or semantic justification, as there is no discernible similarity between the two terms in either English or Arabic (ثويبة vs. سوبيا). To clarify, no one who use "Sobia" would be talking about the wet nurse because that's not her name, it's Thuwaybah, thu-wai-bah, not su-bi-ya.
    The current title of the Sobia article is confusing as drink implies it is consumed as an intoxicant. Turnopoems (talk) 15:07, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Thuwaybah is clearly known to some people as Sobia. There was an article about her at the title Sobia from 2007 to 2018 and since then the term has redirected to the same topic. That is not just someone's fantasy. Off-Wikipedia, see here and here and here and here and here. I don't think "drink" implies an intoxicating beverage. We have Tango (drink), Squash (drink), OpenCola (drink), Shirley Temple (drink), Crush (drink), Tab (drink), and many other similarly named articles. (Moreover, the Sobia (drink) article says "The original sobia was an alcoholic beverage" and that it sometimes has an alcohol content as high as 6.8%, which is higher than most beer.) —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:47, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Most of those external links lead to Urdu-language sites, and a quick Google search for Sobia overwhelmingly returns results related to the drink. There's no clarification in the article itself why this name is related to the article. Given this, it would be far more logical to merge the two articles rather than let this space go to waste. Instead, the Sobia article should merge with the current drink one while including a redirect to the Thuwaybah article, if that is indeed how Urdu speakers refer to her, just as the Thuwaybah article currently redirects to the drink. Turnopoems (talk) 11:13, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    You may be right that "Sobia" is used more often to refer to the drink than the nurse, but it seems strange that about twenty years have gone by with no one suggesting that before. "Sobia" is also a given name and surname used in five other article titles on Wikipedia. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:06, 17 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    @BarrelProof: With all due respect, I don’t find this to be a particularly strong argument. The status quo often remains unchallenged until someone takes the initiative to address it, I don't see how this would invalidate the rationale I'm putting forth in favor of the change. Wikipedia is fundamentally built on the concept of individual initiatives shaping its content over time. I fail to see the logic in leaving an entire article space held hostage and kept empty simply because it's also a first name used in Pakistan, which is not clarified whatsoever either in the Thuwaybah article or the redirect page itself. In numerous other cases, similar issues have been resolved through disambiguation pages and redirects. Why should this case be treated any differently in your opinion? Should we not have a Baker article because it's a common surname? Even if it has not been the case before, the right thing to do is to clarify a clearly ambiguous situation. Turnopoems (talk) 13:12, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose instead turn Sobia into a disambiguation page for being by that name, given or surname -- 65.92.246.77 (talk) 05:19, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Food and drink and WikiProject Egypt have been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPathtalk 13:20, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Seems to be the primary topic, and doesn't seem like the wet nurse is very commonly known by that title.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:35, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. While it appears that Sobia is occasionally used to refer to the Islamic figure, especially in transliterate Urdu or sources discussing the Urdu name and its origins, this does not appear to be the common name used for this person in English-language sources nor is it the most common referent when sobia is used in English-language sources. A Google search for sobia turns up pages and pages of results for the drink and a few personal websites or profiles for modern individuals with this name. Since Sobia (name) and Sobia (surname) do not exist, and there is no serious proposal to create such articles, it is unreasonable to require disambiguation for this article just because in theory such articles could exist. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 19:10, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. As I initiated the request I'll also take a vote, for the sake of clarity. The argument for my position can be seen in the discussion above. Turnopoems (talk) 13:54, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:RM#Nom. You should not express support for your own proposal, as that becomes confusing to those who read the discussion, and the "per nom" part of it is rather silly if you're the nom! —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:11, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough, makes sense. I just figured it might help with clarity to have explicit support/opposition expressed in a uniform and simplified fashion, aside from the earlier pro and con discussion which some might not bother reading due to WP:WALLOFTEXT. Also, please avoid referring to mistakes made in good-faith out of unfamiliarity with certain procedures, as silly. That kind of language can be discouraging, particularly for editors who are engaging with the content in earnest but don't have 100 000 edits under their belt. Turnopoems (talk) 13:09, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry if that comment seemed WP:BITING; it was meant to be educating. Your participation here is very welcome! (And your impression that something should change seems to be prevailing in the discussion, so thank you for helping us make progress.) —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 16:34, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]