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→Why you’re delete vote logic was flawed: somehow the original post was unsigned
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* Synthesis policy, a sub-set of [[WP:NOR]] simply says that editors cannot add content that states a conclusion of otherwise attributable facts, that cannot in itself by attributed to a reliable source. When arguing Synthesis, one must identify the conclusions that an editor is making that is not attributable to a reliable source. It is an often misunderstood policy because most all WP content is synthesized (the common interpretation of the term) from reliable sources. Our policy refers to a special case of synthesis, in that un-attributable conclusions are not allowed. There is a very important distinction here. The operative condition is un-attributable, not un-attributed. Something that is un-sourced, is not de-facto Original Research or Synthesis. Something that cannot be attributed is.
* Synthesis policy, a sub-set of [[WP:NOR]] simply says that editors cannot add content that states a conclusion of otherwise attributable facts, that cannot in itself by attributed to a reliable source. When arguing Synthesis, one must identify the conclusions that an editor is making that is not attributable to a reliable source. It is an often misunderstood policy because most all WP content is synthesized (the common interpretation of the term) from reliable sources. Our policy refers to a special case of synthesis, in that un-attributable conclusions are not allowed. There is a very important distinction here. The operative condition is un-attributable, not un-attributed. Something that is un-sourced, is not de-facto Original Research or Synthesis. Something that cannot be attributed is.
When evaluating an article for notability, evaluate the SUBJECT, not the title, they are not the same. When evaluating an article on OR or SYN, focus on un-attributable facts and conclusions not un-attributed content. Un attributed content can be fixed, un-attributable content cannot. OR and SYN are serious allegations and one must make their case properly if they are to carry any weight.--[[User:Mike Cline|Mike Cline]] ([[User talk:Mike Cline|talk]]) 02:23, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
When evaluating an article for notability, evaluate the SUBJECT, not the title, they are not the same. When evaluating an article on OR or SYN, focus on un-attributable facts and conclusions not un-attributed content. Un attributed content can be fixed, un-attributable content cannot. OR and SYN are serious allegations and one must make their case properly if they are to carry any weight.--[[User:Mike Cline|Mike Cline]] ([[User talk:Mike Cline|talk]]) 02:23, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
** I suspect that the problem is that you're splitting hairs between titles and subjects. I'm not looking for literally "list of fictional Jews" being covered in reliable sources. But some sources that address the topic of Jews in fiction in some direct way would be a necessary ingredient for the topic to warrant an article. If the topic hasn't been covered by sources in a significant (direct, detailed) way, then someone is essentially making up the topic themselves by compiling a bunch of factoids. I could do the same thing for an article about "fictional redheads" or "television shows with lyrical theme songs". I could easily verify a bunch of individual facts, but can I establish the notability of the topic among reliable sources? All this theory aside, thanks for pointing me in the direction of Colonel Warden's sources. I will try to look at them later today and may revise my !vote accordingly... but seeing as there is no consensus to delete it doesn't look like it's all that urgent. [[User:Shooterwalker|Shooterwalker]] ([[User talk:Shooterwalker#top|talk]]) 16:53, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Revision as of 16:53, 13 July 2010

Welcome

Hello, Shooterwalker, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} and your question on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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Why you’re delete vote logic was flawed

Shooterwalker, this is an attempt to explain in detail why I believe your deletion logic at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of fictional Jews was flawed.

  • Article titles are governed by our naming convention policy WP:Article titles. The List title convention in WP:Lists is a derivative of this policy.
  • Article subjects, not titles must be notable for inclusion. Notability of subjects is determined by WP:RS which is a content guideline supporting our verifiability policy WP:V
  • Any attempt to equate an article title literally with an article subject and impose notability requirements on the literal title is not consistent with our policies.
  • Original research WP:NOR is simply a policy that says any content in WP must be attributable to reliable sources. It does not say a literal article title must be attributable to reliable sources. When arguing OR, one must simply state that a specific fact or conclusion in the content is un-attributable to a reliable source.
  • Synthesis policy, a sub-set of WP:NOR simply says that editors cannot add content that states a conclusion of otherwise attributable facts, that cannot in itself by attributed to a reliable source. When arguing Synthesis, one must identify the conclusions that an editor is making that is not attributable to a reliable source. It is an often misunderstood policy because most all WP content is synthesized (the common interpretation of the term) from reliable sources. Our policy refers to a special case of synthesis, in that un-attributable conclusions are not allowed. There is a very important distinction here. The operative condition is un-attributable, not un-attributed. Something that is un-sourced, is not de-facto Original Research or Synthesis. Something that cannot be attributed is.

When evaluating an article for notability, evaluate the SUBJECT, not the title, they are not the same. When evaluating an article on OR or SYN, focus on un-attributable facts and conclusions not un-attributed content. Un attributed content can be fixed, un-attributable content cannot. OR and SYN are serious allegations and one must make their case properly if they are to carry any weight.--Mike Cline (talk) 02:23, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    • I suspect that the problem is that you're splitting hairs between titles and subjects. I'm not looking for literally "list of fictional Jews" being covered in reliable sources. But some sources that address the topic of Jews in fiction in some direct way would be a necessary ingredient for the topic to warrant an article. If the topic hasn't been covered by sources in a significant (direct, detailed) way, then someone is essentially making up the topic themselves by compiling a bunch of factoids. I could do the same thing for an article about "fictional redheads" or "television shows with lyrical theme songs". I could easily verify a bunch of individual facts, but can I establish the notability of the topic among reliable sources? All this theory aside, thanks for pointing me in the direction of Colonel Warden's sources. I will try to look at them later today and may revise my !vote accordingly... but seeing as there is no consensus to delete it doesn't look like it's all that urgent. Shooterwalker (talk) 16:53, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]