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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eaiea (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Stifle (talk) 15:43, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Eaiea

Eaiea (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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A constructed musical language. No more evidence of notability than the previous version of this article (which I have restored for comparison purposes). — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 09:40, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong keep. I've read the old and new versions of this article, and the previously deleted version had no in-line citations, and the only sources listed were the conlang's webpage and Langmaker. The new version has in-line citations from both the Eaeia webpage and three different reliable independent sources. Bennett Chronister (talk) 06:57, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep. I don't know why RHaworth says it doesn't establish notability any better than the old article. This one uses independent sources (as you can see if you read it). Wiwaxia (talk) 10:40, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - per the above. —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 21:33, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Two of the three people voting to keep it are frequent contributors to conlang articles, including this one, so their assessment of reliability should be subjected to scrutiny, as should Bennett Chronister's, whose sole three edits in the last seven years have been in AFD entries for conlangs.

Let's get real here and go over the "reliable sources": the UCLA citation is a Media Arts User Page, which is basically a collection of student project pages hosted by UCLA. In other words, it's not an academic site. To make matters worse, the page mentions Eaiea only in passing and directly cites langmaker.com! The next citation, the PDF file, has apparently been deleted. However, if we move up the URL we find first an abandoned blog and then a site for a fraternity that also seems to be abandoned. After that is eaiea.com. Very reliable! The sole serious citation to be found is an online magazine article about Solresol which again mentions Eaiea only in passing. (I should also note that the article uses this image, which suggests that the writer used Wikipedia as a source for Solresol. I suspect that he went from there to Eaiea and that that is his sole source of information)

I think it would be nice if people who don't have a particular interest in conlanging were to come here and weigh in on the notability of this article because these citations are not reliable. Hermione is a dude (talk) 13:35, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: When I click on http://www.mubetapsi.org/clef/print/clef_s09.pdf I don't get a deleted file. I get Volume 48, Issue 1 of The Clef, the spring 2009 issue of this college newsletter. It is dated April 15, 2009. I first found that newsletter a year ago when I was first searching for reliable sources I could use in an article on Eaiea. I should note that I found a fourth reliable independent source on Googlebooks. I found Eaiea discussed in a book that mentioned that Bruce Koestner was a fan of Solresol! That would have been a great fact to have in this article. Alas, one year later I can no longer find this book on either Googlebooks or Amazon. Voters should note that notability is determined by whether good sources exist, not by whether the article cites any in its current form. In case you're wondering about the Mu Beta Psi newsletter, Amazon is discussed on pages 4 thru 5, in an article titled "Musical Languages".

Oh and by the way, Hermione, that'd be three out of three keepers are frequent contributors to conlang articles.Wiwaxia (talk) 10:57, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    • No, because Bennett Chronister's only contribution to conlang articles has been in AFD discussions spaced two years apart, and he's done nothing else since 2004. That is ultra shady. As for the PDF: it wasn't working when I checked it out the other night, so I assumed it has been deleted. However, now that I have a chance to look at it, I see that the writer doesn't say anything that can't be gotten from eaiea.com, and the mention of the one act opera is a dead giveaway ("according to one website..."). This is essentially a proxy citation of eaiea.com, just like the UCLA link is a proxy citation of Langmaker.com. Hermione is a dude (talk) 12:49, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I feel somewhat unpleasantly surprised by this attitude. In fact, Hermione, you better listen to people who contribute more regularly to articles about constructed languages, because that means in all probability that they are interested in the field and actually know something about it. Would you prefer it if people wrote only about subjects they know nothing about? —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 11:22, 7 June 2011 (UTC) - Aha, and for the record: I have no relationship at all with either Eaiea or its creators, so you can't seriously accuse me of being biased or having a conflict of interest. Nor do I favour an approach of including every possible conlang here, as you can easily deduct from my voting history - and while you're at it, you'll also find out that I never participate in votes about subjects I'm ignorant about. Regards, —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 11:29, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm not saying that we should be inviting total morons who think all constructed languages most be deleted because they "aren't real", but this sort of discussion shouldn't be limited to people who themselves have articles about their conlangs on this Wiki which only barely achieve notability. There are certainly people here who don't know about conlanging but can can still judge this and similar articles fairly. Hermione is a dude (talk) 12:49, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I don't know about the history of this article, but it clearly doesn't meet the general notability guidelines. Of the four sources used by the article, two have a single sentence on Eaiea, one is not independent in any way and the other doesn't seem to be a very significant 3rd party source. Searching the web doesn't bring up any significant, independent coverage of the language making it clear that notability is difficult, if not impossible, to establish. --Mrmatiko (talk) 10:31, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - per the above.  Badgernet  ₪  10:36, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Four sources are cited: one is definitely not RS (it's a personal page), one is not independent and thus not RS for notability purposes (the language's website), one is a college newspaper and thus not RS for notability purposes (the music fraternity newsletter), and one is Terra Magazine, which seems to be reliable but is not sufficient to establish notability. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 05:03, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per the things others said. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tarnhelm bearer (talk • contribs) 18:35, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep - I've checked out the college newsletter and this source is fine. It's professionally piblished and appears in dead-tree format as well as online, with multiple writers and an editor. This is professional and well-put-together. I should also note that this isn't just a passing mention like the other two secondary sources in the article - there's enough to write a longer-than-a-stub article. Non-trivial mention, reliable source, independent - this newsletter meets all three criteria. Subliminable (talk) 22:12, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings, editors of Wikipedia! I thought it might be a good idea to come on here and show everyone this post someone started on the Zompist Bulletin Board (it's a forum that's a part of Zompist.com) where a user named " Xeroderma Pigmentosum" tries to gather up a bunch of "yes" votes. This doesn't sound like something this ol' Wiki would be down for, so keep your eyes peeled! ;) Patiku (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:14, 9 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.