User talk:إيان

February 19: WikiWednesday @ Prime Produce

WikiWednesday is back! You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community for our WikiWednesday Salon at Prime Produce in Hell's Kitchen, Manhattan, with an online-based participation option also available. No experience of anything at all is required. All are welcome! All attendees are subject to Wikimedia NYC's Code of Conduct and Photography Policy. Meeting info: Wednesday, February 19 WikiWednesday @ Prime Produce (optional RSVP on-wiki). 6:00 pm – 7:00 pm (Open Hour) 7:00 pm – 9:00 pm (Wiki Salon) (Prime Produce, Hell's Kitchen, Manhattan) Also online via Zoom

(You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by adding or removing your name from this list.)

--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:47, 7 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, إيان. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or draft page you started, "Germain Ayache".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}}, {{db-draft}}, or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! DreamRimmer bot II (talk) 22:24, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

March 12: Wiki Gala @ Prime Produce

You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community and visitors from the global Wikimedia Foundation for our Wiki Gala at Prime Produce in Hell's Kitchen, Manhattan. All are welcome! This is a sequel to the March 2024 Wiki Gala at Prime Produce, the March 2023 Grand Central Salon and the March 2022 Wiki-Tent Brunch. The event will feature thematic video art installations and our traditional Wiki-fashion show, for which you are encouraged to dress in your finest Wikimedia clothing and accessories (bags, buttons, even books), or clothing connected to the topics you edit on wiki projects. All attendees are subject to Wikimedia NYC's Code of Conduct and Photography Policy. Meeting info: Wednesady, March 12 Wiki Gala @ Prime Produce (optional RSVP on-wiki). 6:00 pm – 10:00 pm (Prime Produce, Hell's Kitchen, Manhattan)

(You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by adding or removing your name from this list.)

--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:18, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello,

Are you still interested in participating in this Talk page discussion? You haven't posted in over a week, and I'm wondering if we should continue without you. Rainsage (talk) 00:20, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

March 27: Editing the Open Data Garden @ Prime Produce

You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community for an urban gardening-themed edit-a-thon at Prime Produce in Hell's Kitchen, Manhattan. This event will be hosted in collaboration with Farming Concrete in celebration of Open Data Week in New York City. All are welcome, new and experienced! All attendees are subject to Wikimedia NYC's Code of Conduct and Photography Policy. Meeting info: Thursday, March 27 Editing the Open Data Garden @ Prime Produce (RSVP on NYC Open Data and optionally on-wiki). 4:00 pm – 7:00 pm (Prime Produce, Hell's Kitchen, Manhattan)

(You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by adding or removing your name from this list.)

--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:16, 22 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

April 11: Free Culture Friday

You are invited to Foundation and Friends' Free Culture Friday at Prime Produce on Friday, April 11. This event will feature a reception with Wikimedia Foundation staff in the afternoon, followed by a more informal salon, hackathon, and game night, utilizing Prime Produce's vast collection of board games. This replaces WikiWednesday Salon this month. No experience of anything at all is required. All are welcome! Friday, April 11, 2025 1:30 pm – 3:00 pm (Wikimedia Foundation staff + community meet-and-greet) 3:00 pm – 7:00 pm (Open salon, hacking, and board games) Prime Produce, 424 W 54th St All attendees at Wikimedia NYC events are subject to the Wikimedia NYC Code of Conduct and Photography Policy.

(You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by adding or removing your name from this list.)

--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:31, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

On 14 April 2025, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Detention of Mahmoud Khalil, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the detention of Mahmoud Khalil raises constitutional questions similar to a 1945 court case? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Detention of Mahmoud Khalil. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Detention of Mahmoud Khalil), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 00:02, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Detention of Mahmoud Khalil, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page The Hill.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 07:55, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You have way too much experience to believe that this type of statement about a living person is permitted. Please do not do that again. FortunateSons (talk) 08:20, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

From an interview with Ari Shavit in 2004 in Haaretz:

Ari Shavit: I’m not sure I understand. Are you saying that Ben-Gurion erred in expelling too few Arabs?

Benny Morris: If he was already engaged in expulsion, maybe he should have done a complete job. I know that this stuns the Arabs and the liberals and the politically correct types. But my feeling is that this place would be quieter and know less suffering if the matter had been resolved once and for all. If Ben-Gurion had carried out a large expulsion and cleansed the whole country – the whole Land of Israel, as far as the Jordan River. It may yet turn out that this was his fatal mistake. If he had carried out a full expulsion – rather than a partial one – he would have stabilized the State of Israel for generations.

He doubles down on this position at least as recently as 2019 in an interview with Ofer Aderet, also in Haaretz. A talk page is not a biography of a living person and discussion and evaluation of cited sources is not forum chatter. إيان (talk) 13:13, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In no particular order: Firstly, WP:BLP applies to all pages, per the first sentence, Editors must take particular care when adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page, including but not limited to articles, talk pages, project pages, and drafts.

Secondly, Benny Morris significantly qualifies the statement, which you do not: Is what you’re actually saying that Israel should have ethnically cleansed the Arabs in that period?

“I can’t put myself in the shoes of the people from that time and their calculations. David Ben-Gurion wanted as few Arabs as possible to remain in the Jewish state at the end of 1948, and he made sure to hint to his officers that that’s what he would like. But he knew that to order the expulsion of the Arabs was not right at the moment of a state’s rebirth. So he moved between the two extremes. In Lydda and in Ramle he authorized expulsion, but in Nazareth he blocked it. The result was that at the end of the war, 160,000 Arabs remained in Israel.”

And you think it’s unfortunate that this is what happened?

“There are people who think it’s unfortunate. I think that a large Arab minority in the Jewish state, if it identifies with the Palestinian narrative and the Palestinian desire to do away with Israel, as some MKs and [other] elected representatives of the Arab society are doing – that’s a problem. The Israeli Arabs have rights here that are far beyond what the citizens of the Arab states possess, but they automatically get swept up in anti-Zionist propaganda led by Arafat in the past or by Hamas today. In 2000, during the second intifada, we saw riots, stones thrown at cars, road closures, inside Israel, by Israeli Arabs. Thank God it didn’t turn into an actual revolt. Everyone has to make his own reckoning about whether the right thing was done in 1948 or not. I think it would have been better for both sides if we’d separated then. “The integration of the Arabs into Israeli society and their loyalty to the state should be encouraged… but they themselves aren’t critical of their own actions and talk – only of the Jews. So, if an Arab murders an Arab in an Arab village, they automatically blame the police for not patrolling enough, but they will not blame themselves and say that Arabs murder Arabs because it seems quite natural there.” I think his views are wrong here, but that’s not the baseline for appropriate conduct, for the same reason that I can’t call every BLP who explicitly or implicitly supports Hamas a terrorist supporter. And if the source doesn’t make that statement, you’re not allowed to make it either. Thirdly, {tq|self-identifies as a Zionist}} is an incredibly inappropriate metric for reliability, as it in effect would exclude the overwhelming majority of Jewish scholars (and people), and a useless metric for bias based on a wide range of political streams within Zionism and interpretations of the term. Almost every Israeli scholar will be a Zionist, and having not sampled the group, I would venture to say that if pressed for an answer, the majority of Jewish Wikipedians hold some variety of Zionist views, as in “support the right of Jewish people to self-determination in a Jewish state.” While the details are disputed, the general trend is clear. FortunateSons (talk) 13:46, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Seems there’s a lot here that I don’t really have the bandwidth to address right now, but I’ll make a few points:

• an endorsement of ethnic cleansing in certain circumstances is still an endorsement of ethnic cleansing
• the Zionist-“terrorist supporter” juxtaposition you make is a false analogy; ‘Zionist’ is an objective descriptor for political movement originating in the 19th century called Zionism by its founders/leaders, whereas ‘terrorist’ does not refer to any specific political movement but is rather a label with mercurial, disputed, and politically expedient semantic contours, and it’s laden with POV connotations
• describing a source as “Zionist” does not place it somewhere on a scale from good to bad, but rather characterizes it as reflecting a Zionist POV, and per WP:NPOV, a POV source can’t be presented as a “master source” without due balance—that’s it

I hope this is clear. إيان (talk) 22:14, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The juxtaposition is not between Zionist and terrorism, but between ethnic cleansing supporter and terrorist supporter. Neither of those terms have clear and undisputed definitions, see Ethnic cleansing and Terrorism, both are primarily a position usually attributed to others and not explicitly claimed by the alleged perpetrators, and both are descriptions that you can’t apply to a living person anywhere on enWiki without clear high-quality RS, as you have done above (again). Any historian (and most other scholars) on any topic are going to be non-neutral in some way, if that’s your statement, then Morris self-identifies as a Zionist and there are certainly a variety of circumstances that should be considered with regard to why he might be cited more than others; he is not a "master source." is either entirely obvious (we should use multiple sources with different viewpoints, and this source, despite being the or among the most high-quality, shouldn’t be the only one used in this article), wrong (the best and most cited source is biased and should therefore be used less) or irrelevant (WP:NOTFORUM). I’m also curious what exactly those variety of circumstances that should be considered with regard to why he might be cited more than others are, except that he is the most respected scholar in his field? He’s certainly not a darling of the Israeli or American right, who both don’t particularly like him, if that’s what you’re implying? FortunateSons (talk) 06:36, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You have recently made edits related to articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles. This is a standard message to inform you that articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles is a designated contentious topic. This message does not imply that there are any issues with your editing. For more information about the contentious topics system, please see Wikipedia:Contentious topics. FortunateSons (talk) 13:49, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think Drop Site News may now meet notability guidelines with the CJR piece. Unfortunately since there was a deletion discussion last year, AFC is the best way to get it to mainspace. Thriley (talk) 14:30, 27 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We'll have to go through the red tape, I guess. Draft submitted. Thank you for reaching out Thriley. إيان (talk) 21:29, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Your edit to Columbia University pro-Palestinian campus protests and occupations during the Gaza war has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for information on how to contribute your work appropriately. For legal reasons, Wikipedia strictly cannot host copyrighted text or images from print media or digital platforms without an appropriate and verifiable license. Contributions infringing on copyright will be removed. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:24, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

To expand on this template, your use of WP:CLOP here is unacceptable. Simply swapping US to United States, counterprotestors to counter-demonstrators, or discipline to punish is not sufficient.

−

The protest came shortly after Benjamin Netanyahu addressed the United Nations General Assembly

+

calling for Columbia’s divestment from Israel shortly after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke before the United Nations General Assembly

−

In an Instagram post, CUAD advised students to wear masks and kufiyyehs and warned them against swiping their Columbia ID cards near the time of the protest, as Columbia's administration had previously used ID swipe data and CCTV footage to identify and punish student demonstrators.

+

Columbia University Apartheid Divest announced the protest in a Thursday Instagram post, encouraging students to wear masks and keffiyehs, and to “be careful about swiping your ID card near the time of the protest.” Columbia has previously used CUID swipes and CCTV footage to identify and discipline student demonstrators.

−

There were a handful of pro-Israel counter-demonstrators with Israeli and US flags chanting "free Gaza from Hamas," "free Lebanon from Hezbollah," and "bring them home." They also sang the national anthems of Israel and the US.

+

A handful of pro-Israel counterprotesters holding Israeli and American flags stood behind speakers at the demonstration. They chanted “Free Gaza from Hamas,” “Free Lebanon from Hezbollah,” and “Bring them home.” They also sang the national anthems of the United States and Israel.

ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:28, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

ScottishFinnishRadish, what changes would you make to report this content? إيان (talk) 17:45, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

After Israeli airstrikes in Lebanon that killed over 720 people, an “All Out for Lebanon” demonstration drew dozens to the Sundial, following Benjamin Netanyahu’s address to the UN General Assembly. CUAD urged participants to wear face coverings and to avoid using Columbia ID cards, due to prior administrative use of video surveillance and ID usage to identify and discipline demonstrators. A small group of pro-Israel counter-protesters responded with US and Israeli flags and national anthems, as well as chants against Hamas and Hezbollah.

I'd also probably only use a ref at the end of the whole paragraph, but that's just me. I think that cleans it up, although "identify and discipline demonstrators" is still there. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:31, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Just for ease of viewing:

−

Dozens of protesters gathered at the Sundial for an "All out for Lebanon" protest following Israeli strikes on Lebanon killing over 720 people. The protest came shortly after Benjamin Netanyahu addressed the United Nations General Assembly. In an Instagram post, CUAD advised students to wear masks and kufiyyehs and warned them against swiping their Columbia ID cards near the time of the protest, as Columbia's administration had previously used ID swipe data and CCTV footage to identify and punish student demonstrators. There were a handful of pro-Israel counter-demonstrators with Israeli and US flags chanting "free Gaza from Hamas," "free Lebanon from Hezbollah," and "bring them home." They also sang the national anthems of Israel and the US.

+

After Israeli airstrikes in Lebanon that killed over 720 people, an “All Out for Lebanon” demonstration drew dozens to the Sundial, following Benjamin Netanyahu’s address to the UN General Assembly. CUAD urged participants to wear face coverings and to avoid using Columbia ID cards, due to prior administrative use of video surveillance and ID usage to identify and discipline demonstrators. A small group of pro-Israel counter-protesters responded with US and Israeli flags and national anthems, as well as chants against Hamas and Hezbollah.

ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:33, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

ScottishFinnishRadish, ok, thank you. Yours reads better too. Can I copy and paste your version where you removed the text? إيان (talk) 00:18, 1 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yup, sure can, with the caveat that I have no opinion on its inclusion. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:37, 1 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]