Talk:Killing of Gabby Petito: Difference between revisions

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Does there really need to be mention at the end of the article of "Missing White Woman Syndrome"? For one, it is in incredibly bad taste considering her family and friends don't know whether she's alive or dead. Second, I believe it's borderline racist, as we don't know what race/ethnicity she identifies with.2600:1005:B0CA:4D69:49D0:DBF7:CF24:D3F9 (talk) 18:29, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, removed that section, its incredibly distasteful and also inappropriate. The MWW page itself is a travesty of pseudoscientific woo and outright racism, Id say it should be deleted, but likely entrenched editors won't allow it. Next best step is to quarantine it by removing all links to it we find — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.7.28.113 (talk • contribs)

• I removed "See also" section that had this link in it. Unless reliable sources make this relevant, we will not make that call.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 19:49, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose consensus is to remove the MWW link as it may not be so related to this subject, but I don't think it is pseudoscience. Perhaps that article can do with opposing opinions added for balance. 79.70.179.144 (talk) 20:09, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps they were being pre-emptive. She will surely be added to the MWWS article once this is all over, as she should be. Evosthunder (talk) 17:35, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The media's habit of trawling around looking for missing "white" women (who also happen to be attractive) to make national headlines is a well-documented bias and certainly isn't "pseudoscience" or "woo". This is Natalie Holloway, the sequel.

Race isn't either a biologically coherent category or something to do with how people identify themselves. It's about how society views you, and what sorts of privileges and disadvantages accompany that mental impression. As it relates to this particular case, you would think that no black people have ever taken a road trip and gone missing. That's a bias that has consequences for the black community, as it determines, among other things, what sort of resources and attention black families receive when their loved ones go missing.

Here's the compromise: Leave the MWW section out for now, but as soon as reliable sources start publishing on this topic (and I promise you this will all be pouring out soon in the press), it is our task to document it.Jonathan f1 (talk) 03:44, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

And now there's a section with appropriate sources. Honestly, this is the most prominent case of MWWS in years, there's no getting around it. Mtijn (talk) 10:46, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Since I don't know the specifics of the van groups timeline I hesitate to add this but it is interesting. Apparently near to where the van couple were arguing on August 12 was a store, and a cashier at the store and her wife went missing on August 13 and found dead on August 14. The article does state that there is no connection but think its interesting.^[1] Leaky.Solar (talk) 15:44, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• there is going to be tons of speculation online in cases like this, so i agree that it doesn't go in the article. have to have some reputable news source making a real connection.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 15:46, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • just collecting more articles of same thread in case it becomes something ^[2], ^[3] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leaky.Solar (talk • contribs)

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the current event template for articles that are actually on the current events page? Trillfendi (talk) 01:21, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not to my knowledge. LunaEatsTuna (talk) 01:00, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Should we move the page to Gabby Petito the Disappearance of Gabby Petito per WP:COMMONNAME? This seems like the name sources use the most. Dr. Swag Lord (talk) 21:50, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The style we have on Wikipedia for things like this is that notability is centered around the events and circumstances around the individual (e.g. Death of George Floyd) so this is currently a proper title, and it looks like Death of Gabrielle Petito is likely to be a proper title quite soon. -- Fuzheado | Talk 22:23, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My mistake. I meant to write the Disappearance of Gabby Petito. Like the Disappearance of Maya Millete, we normally go by the WP:COMMONNAME of the individual in the title.Dr. Swag Lord (talk) 22:28, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d: seems to be a reasonable move. I'll do it, an RM is probably not necessary at this point. Elli (talk | contribs) 22:37, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just-in: A body was found at Bridger-Teton National Park https://abcn.ws/39qUYqh (rushed reporting in advance of an update a few minutes from now). 2603:9000:A703:1EFD:48CC:67A:A863:3A74 (talk) 21:51, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not confirmed… Yet. But the body does match. 2603:9000:A703:1EFD:48CC:67A:A863:3A74 (talk) 22:16, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• There is zero confirmation that a body has been found so please stop changing "is" to "was" Dr. Swag Lord (talk) 22:19, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not me. 2603:9000:A703:1EFD:48CC:67A:A863:3A74 (talk) 22:21, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Human remains have been discovered consistent with the remains of Gabby Petito. This is one of my first changes of a news source. Editors please let me know how I can source if needed. Thanks. The FBI gave their condolences to the family. That is a confirmation.

Bganter (talk) 22:21, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bganter, Stop doing that. Sources have to confirm that is the body. Dr. Swag Lord (talk) 22:22, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Giving condolences is providing sympathy, but not proof. They have identified a body "consistent with the description" of Gabby, but we will need more WP:V from an WP:RS before we state it as fact. - Fuzheado | Talk 22:27, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fuzheado, have you ever asked for scientific proof of death before attending a funeral of your friend or family member? Of course not. Humanity gives proof, science gives confirmation. Be a human. Bganter (talk) 22:46, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Way before the funeral a person competent to do so hopefully confirmed the actual death of the person in question. Kind regards, Grueslayer 22:50, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You have introduced the term "scientific" for some reason, when that is not the standard. Please familiarize yourself with our policies on verifiability and reliable sourcing. -- Fuzheado | Talk 23:15, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Was" is, without a doubt, inappropriate right now. It's highly likely the body is her, but until a statement is made confirming it, "is" is the only appropriate verb tense. Thetonestarr (talk) 23:42, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I was also going to suggest changing the first line to Gabby Petito *was, but I see this has already been discussed.Billbird2111 (talk) 15:15, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article has been semi-protected so only logged in autoconfirmed users can edit. Thanks. - Fuzheado | Talk 22:24, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

86.126.172.33 (talk) 22:25, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  Her body was found! The FBI confirmed it![reply]

They have identified a body "consistent with the description" of Gabby, but we will need more WP:V from an WP:RS before we state it as fact. - Fuzheado | Talk 22:27, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Dr. Swag Lord (talk) 22:31, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Change the first sentence from past tense to present as she is not confirmed deceased 2001:56A:78C7:4700:D138:949F:6F35:D0B3 (talk) 22:30, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Elli (talk | contribs) 22:31, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If the body matches her and (probably) no one else matching her description has gone missing recently and her boyfriend goes missing (probably committed suicide), I think we all know where this is going. User:Thekristenjokes (talk) 22:40, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Gabrielle Petito.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:23, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

FBI offered condolences and the nature of the case ^[1] (murder/suicide/etc) is just beginning to be unraveled. So I suggest "Death" rather than "Murder" or "Disappearance".

BiscuitsToTheRescue (talk) 23:25, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That is likely to be the proper title when her death is confirmed. Until then, the responsible thing to do and the well-established policy on Wikipedia is not to assume anything or speculate and to stick with verifiable facts from reliable sources. -- Fuzheado | Talk 23:40, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Body has not been confirmed yet. She shouldn't be named in the past tense, either, because while condolences are being offered, that's on a "just in case it IS her" basis. As it stands, she has not been confirmed dead so wikipedia should not refer to her as if she has. Thetonestarr (talk) 23:40, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Fuzheado and Thetonestarr - makes total sense. BiscuitsToTheRescue (talk) 23:47, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. I've changed the lead to be "is" and with some more elaboration in the second paragraph. - Fuzheado | Talk 23:50, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• FBI-Gabrielle Petito.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:53, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This youtube channel recovered footage taken on August 27th of the van sitting in Teton National Park. It's likely close to the date of the murder, between her last FaceTime call to her mom on the 24th and the Tiktok users' account of picking up Brian on the 29th. Not sure how to add it but it is relevant information to the case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBp3aNAGuFM

If the body is confirmed to be her, what would be her death date? Would the coroner release their estimate and we work off of that? Or would we work off the last facetime/text? Kellis7 13:46, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Kellis7: we'd work off of what reliable sources say. If inconclusive, we'd probably give a range, again based off of what reliable sources report ("she died between X and Y"). Elli (talk | contribs) 15:18, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We would go with what reliable sources report, based on what the coroner/authorities conclude. - Fuzheado | Talk 15:26, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]